The rules sound like they hit a sweet spot.First, I am not the game designer, nor do I speak for RĂ¼diger Hofrichter – who is very approachable, by the way – but given your accurate statement "The rules sound like they hit a sweet spot", I can speak to why I don't tweak the rule, and why I continue to leave it as is.
The only thing I don't think I could leave untweaked would be that there is no flank or rear. It's such a basic aspect of the structure of humans [go down a dark alley in a bad section of town...do you get mugged from the front or the rear?] and the structure of units [especially when Units are supposed to face front and pay attention there] that I would have to do something about it. Not that it would be hard.
However...I am wondering if the designers have an explanation as to why they left it out? After all, it is as basic a game design as cavalry move faster and artillery shoots farther, so surely they left it out on purpose, so...why Why WHY??
A flanking rule would be a distraction, and in all probability, inaccurate. To me, Rudi decided to abstract our flanks. Let's break it down a bit.
- Tactics of muggers are discounted simply because I am not gaming at that level. I am neither playing an individual mugger nor an individual victim.
- The level I am playing at is either a unit is a regiment (American War of Independence) or a brigade (Austro-Prussian War).
- Each unit has its own commander, responsible for keeping that unit in the correct orientation (facing) and formation (column, line, or square) for the current situation.
- As the Commander-in-Chief it is my responsibility to direct units to location and give them missions (order them to move either to positions or combat).
If you are still with me – that abstracting away control of the atomic unit from the player and assuming it is the unit's commander and that, in general, they will face in the correct direction and use the most appropriate formation – then let's continue on.
- If a commander is oriented in the most appropriate direction and formation, in relation to the enemy, how is an enemy unit attacking from a "flank" an advantage?
When you are assuming that a unit is properly positioned, when threatened by a single unit, there is no advantage, so why model it?
Well, they are being attacked from two sides, right? That has to have some kind of advantage, right?
Sure, but now let's take a page from the King of Abstraction, Neil Thomas. In Wargaming Nineteenth Century Europe 1815-1878 he writes:
For complex rules tend to suffer from conceptual flaws. The chief among these is what can be referred to a 'double jeopardy', or to be specific, accounting twice for a contingency that should only be considered once. For example, units which are behind cover frequently enjoy a morale bonus in complex rulesets; however this fails to account for the fact that the role of cover has already been accounted for, given that the unit within would suffer fewer casualties than its more exposed comrades. If the unit behind cover is still suffering sufficient casualties to endure a morale test, then it is clear that the cover is no longer doing its job – and should not therefore confer any morale bonus.So, if we have agreed that coming at the flank of the enemy with a single unit does not confer a bonus as the enemy simply turns to face you, i.e. it is not "flanking", then a flanking situation occurs only when a unit is being engaged by two or more units, coming at you from front and side or rear.
But, what is that actual advantage? Well, one is that you have effectively placed two units onto one, therefore you have a concentration of firepower. But that would also be true if you were engaging with two units from the front. So that is not the advantage of flanking.
Well, the combat power of the flanked unit is diffused because it is facing two directions and firing at two units. But saying you have diluted combat power is just the opposite of saying the enemy has concentrated combat power. Again, this would be true if facing two separate units from the front. So that is not the advantage of flanking.
Some rules put forth the concept of enfilading fire, defining enfilade similar to Wikipedia:
A formation or position is "in enfilade" if weapon fire can be directed along its longest axis. The benefit of enfilading an enemy formation is that, by firing along the long axis, it becomes easier to hit targets within that formation. ... Enfilade fire takes advantage of the fact that it is usually easier to aim laterally (traversing the weapon) than to correctly estimate the range to avoid shooting too long or short. Additionally, both indirect and direct fire projectiles that might miss an intended target are more likely to hit another valuable target within the formation if firing along the long axis.Here is where the rub is. In order to model enfilade, you have to track a unit's exact position and formation at all times. And you have to care. Neil Thomas, despite having rules to track a unit's position and formation, still provides no flanking bonus as suggested by Allen, in the ruleset cited above. So clearly Neil feels that flanking bonuses fall into the realm of 'double jeopardy'. So do I.
If we read the descriptions of any battle, how do you know which factor produced the 'devastating fire from the enemy'? Was it their Elite morale bonus? Was it their Superior Training rating? Was it their First Fire bonus? Was it just that they rolled a '6'? We don't know because the truth is we are not trying to create an accurate simulation of war here. Hell, we cannot even model the track of a hurricane accurately, much less weather in general because of the complexity in variables, so how are we to succeed with war? The truth is that we add bonuses and subtract penalties because it 'feels right', not because it represents a measurable, quantifiable, factor.
So I say that flanking fire is more effective because you are pouring fire (or swinging swords) from two units versus my one. This represents the concentration of combat power on your part and a dilution of combat power back. Yes that is the same as if you were attacking with two units to my front. Prove that moving one unit some number of degrees to the side has a measurable, quantifiable benefit and I will consider modeling what has been abstracted away.
So, we've looked at whether it should have a benefit or not. Let's look at the benefit versus the cost of having such a rule. As previously stated, the first requirement to getting a flank bonus is defining a unit's flank. That means you must track a unit's position and orientation, at the very least. Given that enfilade of a line is from the side and enfilade of a column is from the front, formation is now another data point you must collect.
Let's go back to the first assumption at the top of the post: we have non-player commanders responsible for that, leaving me, the player, free to focus on higher level information and not mired in the minutiae of unit administration. You have to decide: are you player a Commander-in-Chief or are you playing a collective of unit Commanders?
From a rules detail perspective, think of all of the rules that you have read and how they deal with flanks. Some say that if you end the move behind an imaginary line running along the front edge/through the middle/running along the back edge of the front stand/unit then you are on the flank. Other say the same, but only if you started and ended behind that line that turn. Maybe the rules align stands in combat and thus the requirement is your unit's front face is flush against the enemy unit's side face, but only if at least half/all of the unit is in contact. The combinations are endless.
Do you know what these sort of rules produce? Arguments. Did you meet the conditions before you started the move? Did you have enough move to get to the exact position by the end to count as flanked. Is it really realistic that you don't could because you were 1/4" too far away? (Don't get me started about grids...)
You know what else these sort of rules produce? Pages or explanations. Generally up for interpretation (unless they were written by Phil Barker ... on second thought, those are too).
The core principle of Tin Soldiers in Action is to produce a set of rules that do not produce arguments. It does not accomplish this by being precise, but rather by abstracting away the elements that we like to think we can accurately define, but are actually fooling ourselves by saying we not only understand why a unit in such a position would have an advantage, but what percentage bonus should be applied.
So Allen, what flanking bonus did you apply when you tweaked Wargaming Nineteenth Century Europe 1815-1878? How many words did you have to use to define what a flank was and when a bonus would be applied in combat? How did you determine what the bonus should be? Just curious.
Interesting post. In most case units attacked in the flank are engaged by troops to their front. A normal tactic when of pinning your opponent in place when attempting envelopments. The allied war plan in the second Gulf War is an example of this. However, I suggest you read about the battle of Nemea where the Spartans attacked the flank of the victorious allied infantry defeating each group in turn. None of them were engaged or threatened by any other units to their front nor were they in disorder. Turning a battalion formation to the flank is not a simple process of facing to the flank. The formation is about 400 feet wide and only about 10 feet deep. It takes a significant amount of time to wheel the formation to face to the flank without disordering it even if there is no one to the front.
ReplyDeleteDale,
ReplyDeleteI still haven't found a copy of TSIA for sale in the U.S. The price Caliver books wants, plus 25% postage from the UK, would come to almost $50--which I just can't swing. Did you buy your copy in the U.S.? If so, where?
Best regards,
Chris Johnson
Chris - quick correction. OMM has it for standard shipping at $5, so I just got it for $45 total. The $9 shipping was priority [unk to me why that's the default...it's not medicine is it??].
DeleteAs for the value, the front page listing of recent arrivals has several rules sets, including a 68pp softback for $30, a spiral softback for $36, etc. At 270pp and hardback, the book is really something of a bargain. I am beginning to think that they aren't even selling it at a profit. Maybe they're retirees just trying to break even so their wives don't cut their gaming allowance!
Chris, On Military Matters has it for $40, plus the postage is almost $50 if you can't pick it up. Bottom line is that for 270 pp of stuff, that's pretty typical. At the end of the day, we have to remember this famous comment about wargames: "How can I have too much of something I don't need at all?" it's part of the entertainment budget, and skipping one evening of beer bashing and a movie for two will be more than enough.
ReplyDeleteOr you can knock over a liquor store, but that's ill-advised.
:)
Cheers for the in-depth thinking, Dale.
ReplyDeleteWhen I did the Franco-Prussian rules, there was no flank bonus in the original rules. I did not introduce one for a couple reasons, nor a long/short range. Interestingly, haven't had a complaint about that yet. Anyway, why not?
1) With a table scale of 1"=100m, weapons with killing ranges of 1000m, most units in skirmish order, and pretty rolling terrain over most of the battlefields, there really isn't much of a "flank" to take advantage of. the F-P War has more in common with WWI than the ACW much less Napoleonics. Who can even see a flank at 300m? How do you know the 700 guys are even skirmishing when they're hiding in micro terrain that most gamers don't even put on the table? And they are prone?
2) the Units have a frontage of about 3", and they shoot 6" and 9" for infantry, and 24" for guns, generally, which are often firing shells or shrapnel. So formations don't really matter much. If they are firing in you direction, the bullets are going to go thru the entire length / depth of your formation, and if you are hit by a bullet aimed at someone else, you are still hit. Historically, there was a thick skirmish line a few hundred hards wide a few hundred yards ahead of the main body, which would be in a column of companies. They woudl rotate companies in and out of the firing line as needed.
This is pretty different from 500 men in a line standing up in the open so they could see the other guys standing up in the open about 50-100m away.
That being said, there is a bonus of "double" for meleeing a unit in the flank. At that point, it is as much about morale as anything else.
I do agree about the simultaneously engaged from front and flank / rear aspect.
I do agree about the scale. A Brigade is less sensitive to flank / rear threats since it has several regiments that can be deployed to face several threats and directions.
However, If I remember correctly, your French carabiniers were ready to charge the rear of a British brigade but couldn't b/c they'd be shot down by supporting fire. Yet, your French infantry were engaging those same Units in teh front.
How complicated would the rule be? I dunno, I don't own the rules - yet. However, I'd hazard a guess that one could say that you can't support fire to the rear, and be done with it.
But yes, this gets into the nitty-gritty of the critical issue of what I would call "representation" as well as scale. I.e. what does the "unit" represent? If it represents a series of maneuver / combat groups that can fight in any direction, then maybe not so big a deal. If it represents a rigid, linear formation that is focused to the front and is far wider than deep [hoplites or Prussian musketeers] then maybe it should matter?
I'm thinking about TSIA for my 40mm ECW project, which is a bit stalled. Also like the fact that it has so many useful rules for other aspects of warfare, that I presume have been playtested out.
Best, Alex
If you're leaving it to the battalion commander to position his men, then yes, there is no need for any rules about flanking. That is out of the overall commander's (player's) hands, and the dice take care of it. If you roll really bad (or the attacker rolls really good), then your battalion commander maybe got surprised by an enemy on his flank, and wasn't protecting it well enough. Or whatever other reason you want to imagine for the particularly bad performance.
ReplyDeleteThis is the proper way to rationalize these events that are a level or two below the commander’s influence. You expect your subordinates to do their job. Let the dice decide how well they performed.
DeleteFun read and interesting insight :) Now I'm rereading your other TSIA posts.
ReplyDeleteI now have my rules in hand, and have started to plug away at the tremendous generosity of them! Lots of pages, lots of stuff. I have read that there are two scales - large battle is basically boardgaming, and a Unit represents a regiment or brigade of a few thousand soldiers. Small scale is where a Unit is a battalion of 500-ish soldiers.
ReplyDeleteI think abstraction can handle a lot as mentioned by Craig and Jonathan above, at that larger scale. I think at the smaller scale, one expects that being outflanked is a significant issue. Depending on how the Turn sequence works, it may be easier or harder to "surprise" a unit on the flank. *generally* I expect a unit that is successfully "flanked" to either be caught napping [could be resolved with dice] or be simultaneously engaged frontally and on a flank / rear [resolved by a skillful player, one would expect!].
The rules have a lot in them. I have also received and read "A Gentleman's War" which has a toy / tin soldier theme, and hope to compare them in the future with large 54mm figures!
Thanks for the detailed review and thoughts - I wouldn't have bought TSIA without them.